Maya: I tried in the infographic to explain the meaning. Like why is this important? Because in the second row of graphics we see creation stories, which are really important stories, really central stories that get replicated in our storytelling.

And you see that Cinderella and the New Testament have the same story shape. And then I think we can start to see that the stories that we're telling, whether it's Disney or a self published author, they relate to the deeper stories that we're telling in our society.

And then I collected all the story shapes together, and there are ones that we don't see that often, like the first creation story where things just get better and better and better. We don't see that story very often. And so we can see, well what does that mean about our society? And if I were to tell a story where life just gets better every day, would anyone be interested in that story? How would that story come across? So I think bringing them all together, seeing which are the common ones, and which are the outliers, really outlines the whole landscape of it.

Kevin: Looking at the diagrams, if I'm an author and I look at this, and I go, "Oh, mine doesn't match one of those." Or if I go, "Oh, that's exactly how to do it." What do you think about people who take the concept in that way?

Maya: I think that that's non necessary. I think that the exciting thing about writing or telling stories is finding how to take what we know, what we feel, what we understand, and what we want to share with people – and really making that real for them, and painting that picture for them, so that they can come on that journey with us.

And so if our journey looks different than those ups and downs, I want you to make that real for me. I want you to tell me the story the way you see it and feel it. And sometimes, if we follow the template, then it kind of comes across flat.

And the really exciting thing is, if you're writing something, I'm getting a story that only you can write. So I want that story. I don't want the story that you think you have to write in order to make it palatable. I'm going to resonate more with what you would really choose to do if you're choosing totally freely when you're writing.

Kevin: Where do you see story right now and what role do you see it going forward?

Maya: I really think it's very personal and also affects the entire world. I think that when we tell stories the way that we really want to, we feel understood. And that is such an important, deep human value, to just feel like, “Okay, I can exist as I am, because I'm telling my story the way I am, the way it is,” or, “I'm telling how I see things the way I really see them. I'm sharing what I understand, and then I think people can understand me.”

And then I think we have a lot of big cultural reckoning. We have large groups, large movements of people trying to tell their stories or the way they see things. And we have a lot of clashing, and we also have a lot of speaking out. “Well, I don't like how this story has been told. I don't like the picture that has been painted about me. I don't think this is accurate.” You know?

So I think story is the playing field where we advocate for ourselves and we try to show life the way it really is, and we show our experiences the way they really are. And it seems like for so long, things have been painted falsely. And when we bring stories that feel true, I think it's part of how we bring clarity and greater understanding to humanity.

Kevin: On your tenderhuman.com website, I think one of the opening lines is something about how you're interested in art and work that touches people's souls. I think you're kind of getting there a little bit here, but tell me a bit about that. Is that a genuine kind of metaphysical experience you're talking about? Or is it more metaphorical? What do you mean when you say you're interested in soul-touching art?

Maya: Well, I think I've talked to some people who feel like they have an intuition and I've talked to some people who are like, "Yeah, I don't have that." And I think regardless there's some kind of instrument inside that knows when you feel good, and when you don't. When you feel comfortable and at ease, and when you don't. I think especially with the world kind of being crazy and life kind of being crazy, it's so important to have a feeling of sanctuary inside yourself, a feeling of stability, steadiness, peace. And I think when we have that, that's what I think of as like, "okay, my soul is doing okay."

Kevin: And so when you're creating art, is that soothing your soul or other people's souls or do you see it as both?

Maya: I see it as both. I see it as there's something in me that wants to come out. And where is it going? It's not just going into a vacuum. Hopefully, someone else will take that in, or open the door and have their own experience with it.

And then when there is that channel open between people – because there's something being shared and there's something being received – I think that that creates an understanding between people and then our world gets a little bigger. Because between me and you there's a nice hallway that I want to walk into. I like that space between me and you, and so there's more room for us. [...] I think that it can be really alienating sometimes to be human and you can feel a lot of solitude. But to know that there is an open space between you and another person, it changes the experience of life really, really deeply.

Kevin: As a professional artist yourself, do you have any thoughts or advice for these folks who are on the verge of stepping out into being professional authors?

Maya: I would say to spend some time getting ready to be seen in this new way, as a writer. as a person who has told this story. Because visibility is not always comfortable. And putting your work out there can be very vulnerable.

I think about it like concentric circles. Before I put something on my website, it will be an idea. I'll mull it over. The first circle is me. Maybe I'll talk about it with a friend, and then I have this inner circle. I get my head around it a little more. And then I might share it more publicly. I don't just shoot it right out to the world because that's a big circle.

Advancing a little bit more of the horizon of how you let people see you in this new way – that can take time. So if you if you get a head start you'll probably be ready by the time your book comes out.

Kevin: I mentioned to the group that I was going to be speaking with you today and asked if there were any questions they had. One of my members said she was curious if you were familiar with the concept of the heroine's journey, and if you thought about capturing any other kind of literary concepts similar to this Shape of Stories work you've done.

Maya: I'm a little familiar with Joseph Campbell, the hero's journey. Is the heroine's journey different?

Kevin: Yeah. So I think it's a newer take on it and saying that Campbell's hero's journey or really, Christopher Vogler's update of Campbell's hero's journey (which is what terminology we mostly use), is really a western male-focused journey. This idea of "I'm gonna go out, conquer the bad guy, become a man, and then come back to society and contribute via having reached my alpha maleness."

The heroine's journey take is that women are often much more about building community. So it's not about going out on your own and slaying the dragon. It's about bringing a team of people together to slay the dragon, or to figure out a way to work with the dragon. A more modern or different thinking on the hero's journey and how that might be better reflected from a feminine point of view.

Maya: I love that. Please thank whoever asked that. That's so interesting. First of all I'm not familiar with it, but the way I relate it to the infographic is that the infographic really is designed to choose one person's well being and map that.

The focus on an individual is a societal choice we see a lot. We live in a really individualistic society. But of course that's not the whole story. Community is really important, connection is really important.

If you wanted, you could pick a different thing to map. You could map the existence of community. How healthy is this community? Does it exist yet? And you could map that.

You could be like, okay well there's not much here yet. But now someone has taken initiative. And then here, they're going around, they're getting people. People are not sure. Okay, people are joining. Now the community is really strong. And what are they going to do from there?

So you could pick something else to map. You can be abstract about it and pick something like community.

Let's say there are three characters who are really central. You can map all three of them. You don't have to make one person too primary.

Maya: If you're making a shift from the western, male, conqueror, individual, and you want to tell a story in a way that is more multi-dimensional – showing characters through their own lens, giving each character their own arena can be a really good practice to try to bring in.